Black Op Radio #12 In 1968, as a young photographer, Scott Enyart found himself snapping photos of Presidential Candidate Senator Robert F. Kennedy at the moment of his assassination. In this 2000 Black Op Radio interview, Mr. Enyart discusses that moment and his decades long efforts to get his crime-scene photos back from the Los Angeles Police Department - including a high-profile case against one of the LA's most ruthless lawyers.
The full audio is available as part of Black Op Radio's Season 1 / year 2000 - one of 26 interviews available via direct download for $10.
LA Times, Jan 18 1996 "New Twist in Kennedy Mystery : Photo Negatives of Robert F. Kennedy's Assassination Disappear"
Chicago Tribue, Mar 31 1992 "A Different Kennedy Murder Mystery: Where Are The Rfk Pictures?"
Announcer You're listening to the Fiasco Brothers Radio Network. Welcome to Black Op Radio, the voice of political conspiracy research. To call in, we have a secure line ready. Area code 604-525-XXXX. Again, just call area code 604-525-XXXX. You're listening to Black Op Radio, the show NSA doesn't want you to hear. And now your hosts, Anita Langley and Len Osanic.
Len Osanic Hello, Anita. Good evening.
Anita Langley Hi, Len.
Len Osanic Another show. This is show 12. Tonight, we're privileged to have Mr. Jamie Scott Enyart. Scott Enyart. And he was in the Ambassador Hotel the night that Robert Kennedy was assassinated and we're just going to try to get on the line now. Scott, are you there?
Scott Enyart Hi, Len.
Len Osanic Great. Can you hear us okay?
Scott Enyart Yes, I can. How are you?
Len Osanic Not too bad.
Scott Enyart Good.
Len Osanic And our cohost, Anita.
Anita Langley Hi.
Scott Enyart Hi, Anita. How are you?
Anita Langley Great. Great to have you hear.
Scott Enyart Good. Glad to be here.
Len Osanic Let's just go back and just give listeners a brief overview. When Robert Kennedy was in the Ambassador Hotel, you were a young photographer there taking pictures. You ended up in the pantry?
Scott Enyart Well, yeah. I was 15 years old. I was on my high school paper and I was assigned to photograph the victory speech of Robert F. Kennedy, as well as I was campaigning of Robert F. Kennedy out of his campaign headquarters here on Wilshire Boulevard. So, I was familiar with the candidate, I had met him before, and I was very familiar with the Ambassador Hotel because I had spent a lot of time there swimming in the swimming pool there with a friend of mine who I went down there with who belonged to a club there. It was called the Sun Club. It was like an athletic club. So, I used to hang around and I knew my way in and out and all the different rooms and all the doors and everything around the Ambassador Hotel. We made sure to find out exactly here Kennedy would be. We were up in his room before he came down. We knew where the pantry was and we were prepared to sneak into the Embassy Room if we had to. It ended up that we got press passes, so we got full access to it.
Len Osanic Oh, so did you get to meet him beforehand?
Scott Enyart: I had met him the day before when he was walking around on the grounds there are the Ambassador Hotel. We would say hi to him. He was staying down at the beach at John Frankenheimer's house, and then they would have rooms there at the Ambassador Hotel sort of for official functions and things, so he would come there during the day and do things, his kids would swim in the pool and stuff and then they would go back to the Frankenheimer house. John Frankenheimer dropped him off at the hotel in fact for this event. For the speech at around 5:30 I think.
Len Osanic Right, and then he would have what you would call a hospitality suite.
Scott Enyart That's right. They had three rooms upon the sixth floor. They had two adjoining suites and then a room across the hall, and across the hall they were set up with like an interview room. They had lights and everything in there. ABC News and there were a lot of reporters that were assigned to him for the campaign and so he would pop in and out back and forth across the room. So, we went upstairs. We took the fire escape stairs up. We knew what room he was in, and we would hang out in the hallway and he would walk back and forth we would say hi to him or something and just sort of poke our heads in the room. It was a very friendly atmosphere, there was no Secret Service at the time. There was a little bit of private security. You had a few guys who sort of took care of him - a Rosey Grier kind of thing. People who would move people out of the way. But there was no official body guard situation for the Kennedys.
Len Osanic Yeah, so it was probably exciting to meet him then.
Scott Enyart: It was very exciting. For me, it was an opportunity. I wanted to be the big press photographer and all the big photographers were there. There were about 200 photographers there from all around the world. Big guys from Life Magazine. Bill Eppridge, people like that. I had a press pass on. We can go anywhere. We could go in the press room, we could go back stage and mingle with these guys and ask for tips and advice and stuff and watch what they were doing. After we saw Kennedy upstairs, we went downstairs. Kennedy was involved in three primaries. It was the California primary and then two others and so they were waiting for the returns to come in on the other primaries, even though it appeared he had won in California. So, he didn't come downstairs until after midnight. And we arrived there around six or 7:00, so we were all over the hotel and then finally starting around 10:00, I took up position right in front of the podium about five feet back from right in front of the podium and just held my ground there until he came down at a little after 12:00.
Len Osanic Then they had announced that he had in fact won.
Scott Enyart Right, they announced that he had won. They brought him on stage, they brought his wife up on stage with him. He gave a speech. It was very exciting, everyone cheering and everything. Very casual speech. I was impressed with how he ... He didn't sit there and read some scripted thing. He related to the audience. He spoke about all the people, Cesar Chavez on stage with him, Paul Shrade from the United Auto Worker's Union and so he referred to everyone, was very comfortable with everybody and then time came to leave the stage and normally they would have gone off to stage left out to a doorway, out to a parking lot. They were supposed to go out to an event at a night club called The Factory in West Hollywood for a victory party.
What happened, because Kennedy came on stage so late, he was advised by someone on stage not to go out into the parking lot but to come back through and go into the press room where the radio guys were because if he didn't go back and talk to the radio people and the print press people, he wouldn't make the morning papers. Because he had come down so late, everyone was behind schedule. So, as he left stage, he went off to the right to go back to the press room instead of leaving the auditorium, and that's really what sealed his fate. Had he gone out the other way, he would have missed Sirhan entirely. So, he went off stage and went to what would be stage right. All of the press photographers and all of the film photographers and you know there was no video tape back then so there was no cameras running. They all went off, packed up their equipment, were headed for their cars.
Because I didn't have the same kind of deadline, I followed the candidate and went back stage through these two doors where you go back to the kitchen area, and I followed Bobby Kennedy back into the pantry area and was photographing him along the way as we went. And so that's when everything broke loose. I was about 10 feet behind him taking pictures and he was being escorted by a security guard, Eugene Thane Cesar who was holding his arm, and as he was walking through and had his back to me and I was photographing, all of the sudden there was all these popping noises and people were stomping on balloons and everything and I had no idea what gunfire sounded like. I was 15 years old.
Len Osanic Now, I hate to interrupt you, so of course let's try to do this politely. First of all, you said he was led by a security guard.
Scott Enyart Yeah, there was a security guard, Eugene Thane Cesar. There were a couple of off duty guys from Lockheed who were private security force who were brought in. There were no police there and so to help him get through the crowd, this guy Eugene Thane Cesar, was holding him by his right elbow and sort of escorting him through the pantry, sort of clearing people out of the way. It was Rosey Grier who was in front of him, kind of pushing the crowd out of the way, but Bobby Kennedy stopped there in the pantry area. There were all these Hispanic, Mexican workers who were working in the kitchen who couldn't come out and hear the speech and Bobby Kennedy stopped and spoke to all these people and started shaking hands and things. I remember being impressed with the fact that he would stop and after this long evening here when he could go off and party with his friends, he was spending time talking with these people who he was obviously concerned with being involved in the political process.
Len Osanic I mean, for those of us who have looked into it, we known the name Thane Eugene Cesar. But I was not aware that that's who escorted him.
Scott Enyart Yeah. Yeah, he was holding him by the elbow and moving along in the crowd, and in fact when Kennedy was shot and finally ended up on the ground, he was holding Eugene Thane Cesar's tie in his hand. It was a clip-on tie and he had ripped it off. He had grabbed hold of his tie on his way falling to the ground and was holding it in his hand as he fell to the ground.
Len Osanic Yeah, right. Now, at what point were you talking photos? Right when this was happening?
Scott Enyart Yeah, I was taking photos as they were walking. I saw him in silhouette and he would turn from side to side shaking hands and I was getting him at his profile as he was shaking hands and then he turned one time to the left and was shaking hands. I remember all the sudden he just dropped from the frame. He just fell. So, I followed him down and there was all this chaos. I took a few pictures and then people started falling backwards on top of me. In fact, Paul Shrade fell backwards and knocked me down. He was shot in the forehead, and as I fell backwards I got up and jumped up on a table which was in the corner of the pantry and I continued taking pictures of everything that was taking place down there were Kennedy fell, but I thought he had slipped and fallen or I thought he had fainted.
I had not related to the fact that he had actually been shot at the time. Once I was up on the table and people started screaming and there were other victims, "I've been shot, I've been shot". It became very evident that it was much worse than it was.
Len Osanic That's astounding because for those of us who may not feel that Sirhan Sirhan fired fatal shots, that means that everyone behind him and you had clear photos of that.
Scott Enyart That's correct.
Len Osanic And more than one. A series of photos you were taking up to there. Approximately how many do you think you took?
Scott Enyart I took about 18 to 20 pictures in the pantry area.
Len Osanic 18 to 20 in the pantry area.
Scott Enyart Yeah, so during the actual shooting there was actually probably four to six pictures as he's falling, and then the rest of them in the chaos afterwards as people re scrambling and moving around.
Len Osanic And at what time frame would you say from when you first noticed Kennedy falling to when the shooting stopped? How long would that interval be?
Scott Enyart The actual shooting probably took place in a period of just a few seconds. It was very rapid and I know that people immediately jumped. I mean, there's no doubt that Sirhan walked in that room with a gun and emptied it in the general direction of Bobby Kennedy. Whether or not he had blanks in the gun, whether or not any of his shots hit Bobby Kennedy, you could argue about, but there's no doubt and there are a lot of witnesses. He came in there, he pulled out his gun, and he fired.
The problem is that he was standing in front of Bobby Kennedy the entire time and about three feet away from him at waist level when all the shots that killed Bobby Kennedy were point blank behind his ear, to his neck and to his back, and that's where Eugene Thane Cesar was standing and Eugene Thane Cesar pulled his weapon and that's an interesting thing about once I was up on the table and all of this chaos took place, what I saw is I never saw Cesar pull his gun out and shoot Kennedy, but I did see him get up and his weapon was already out. And so, he had drawn his weapon at some point and so whether or not he accidentally shot Bobby Kennedy trying to return fire and kill Sirhan or whether he intended to assassinate Bobby Kennedy, nobody could tell at this point. But we do know that there was more than one gun in that pantry.
We know by the bullet count, the official bullet count from the LAPD and the FBI, which is anywhere from 10 to 14 bullets. Well, that's more than eight and there were only eight bullets in Sirhan's gun. The bullet that came out of Bobby Kennedy's head could never be identified as having come from Sirhan's gun, so we know that the bullet that killed Bobby Kennedy cannot be tied to Sirhan's gun either in caliber or weight, nor in position in how it was fired in the pantry that night.
Len Osanic Right. Due to the powder burns on the back of his head.
Scott Enyart That's right. It was a contact wound, and Sirhan was nowhere tall enough and nowhere near enough to Bobby Kennedy at that time to get in that position.
Len Osanic And this is astounding information because like you say, if anyone looks into it, they find that the police recovered up to 14 possible bullets.
Scott Enyart That's correct.
Len Osanic And then when they checked with the ceiling tiles and the frame of the doorway and what not, where the bullets were lodged in, these things have subsequently been destroyed.
Scott Enyart That's right, and the bullet that ... There's one bullet that was supposedly in pretty good shape that they could have tested was recently checked up at the archives and it's been covered in grease, and once it's been covered in grease you could no longer test fire the bullet. So, the bullets had been moved, they'd been altered, the evidence at the archives we proved during our trial. They changed evidence numbers. They took my photographs and evidence number 24 and 25 which once held a bullet and a shell casing now all of the sudden were a proof sheet and a role of film. So, there's been all kinds of fooling around up there at the archives from the LAPD and the FBI which came out in our trial and the evidence has just been altered and changed in so many ways and that trail of evidence has been so poor in terms of who touched what and who signed off on what that the police have pretty much made sure that nobody can come to any conclusion other than the one that they came to, which was that Sirhan was their sole assailant.
Len Osanic Yeah, but this destruction of evidence, it goes past malicious. It's like the Warren Commission. You can't say that they made mistakes. They have purposely-
Scott Enyart They dry cleaned Bobby Kennedy's suit before trial. They took the wood door panels where bullets were fired and destroyed the because they said they wouldn't fit in a file cabinet. These are the kind of excuses that they're giving. They burned 2,400 photographs three weeks before Sirhan's trial in a hospital incinerator.
Len Osanic How many? How many was that again?
Scott Enyart 2,400 photographs.
Len Osanic Right, and I think somebody said it was a stack about a foot and a half tall.
Scott Enyart Exactly. Of photographs, and they had no ID numbers. There were no recording of these photographs, and we put these police officers on the stand. Not only did they acknowledge doing this, but they said they did this on a regular basis. So, this is destroying photographic evidence before Sirhan even goes to trial with evidence that hasn't even been logged in an official way.
Anita Langley So, then would you say that ... From what you're saying, I guess you would say that this is a normal way that the police treat evidence.
Scott Enyart Well, when you talk about conspiracies, because my trial was never about any conspiracy, otherwise we never would have gotten to court. We kept it as a simple property case. The police department took my film, they didn't give it back and so either replace it or pay for it. That's how we were successful in the courts. In terms of a conspiracy, you can be part of a conspiracy without knowing you are part of that conspiracy. People could operate in a way because they're given orders which fulfill the needs of a conspiracy without them consciously going, "Hey, I'm a conspirator and I'm trying to do this to upset the government," or whatever, and I think a lot of that took place in this case.
There was this rush to judgment. You have to consider that we had Martin Luther King killed, we had had John F. Kennedy killed, and so the order came down in this Bobby Kennedy shooting from Washington, from the FBI within moments of the assassination that we don't want another Dallas and so they want to make sure the LAPD that they said, "Look, we caught the guy. We got him with his gun. Collect all the evidence that said this guy did it, and let's just get this guy the trial and get him into a jail cell and we've done our job," and so they destroyed everything that didn't point directly to Sirhan having done it and so they weren't so much malicious in what they were doing. They were really convinced they had the right guy. But in the process, they destroyed all this evidence of all these outside influences that would have told us why Sirhan was there and whether or not there were other guns or any other thing involved in this and whether it was much a larger thing than just one crazed Jordanian immigrant with a grudge.
Len Osanic Yeah, but, I wouldn't hold that opinion. I would ... From what I understand, from Operation Senator and testimony from some of the cross examination of witnesses and how they brow beat people, I would say that there was several insiders that like you say were using people that may not have been known they were being used, but this was an operation. A covert operation which was rampant I think in LA.
Scott Enyart Right, I'm just saying at the level that I was operating and the level that we kept our trial and everything, we stayed away from all of that and that's the only way we were able to get through the court. Had we raised these issues like you're talking about, they would have said, "Oh, they're crazy conspiracy nuts. Get them out of here." So, we used basically their own tactics - clean police work - to bring this thing forward and expose enough of it and so we were able to get into trial in seven weeks of trial, put these people on the stand who had never been on the stand before, and like you say, willing or unwilling participants in a conspiracy, and get them to lay this story out and put it into the public record.
Len Osanic Right. So, let's talk about your trial now. When did you first take the police to trial?
Scott Enyart Well, what happened is I was taken at gunpoint at the hotel. Someone had told the police that I was taking pictures during the actual shooting. A woman named Joan Barr. There was a police report filed. So, I was taken by police, I was held at the hotel, I was transferred to Rampart Station and questioned. My film and my camera were taken. And then they told me that my film was sealed for 20 years. That it was used as evidence in Sirhan's trial and that I could not get to it until 1988.
Well, in 1988, I waited all that time and I wrote letters and officially asked for my film back. One of the first things we found out was that there was no 20 year sealing of the evidence. That was just the LAPD saying that there was because they didn't want anyone to go near it. But no judge, no government body had officially sealed this evidence. The LAPD had decided that the public and the press shouldn't be able to look at this.
So, in 1988, everything was transferred to the California State Archives, and through my letters, the archives were searched and as a result of that I got a letter from the California State Archives from the chief archivist, Mr. Metzer, stating that my photographs, not only were they not there, but it was the opinion of the California state archives that the police had burned and destroyed my film along with these 2,400 other photographs that were destroyed at the time. So, it was then that I took legal action and actually sued the LAPD, State of California, and whatever FBI, whatever entities we had to sue in order to get them to produce the records and produce the witnesses to discover where my film was.
Len Osanic And this is 1988?
Scott Enyart 1988. So, we wound through the courts, though the appeals courts. We were thrown out on statute of limitations. They said you waited too long. We waited 20 years because we thought the film was there, so we were reinstated by the courts so that our trial could go through. We didn't go to trial until 1996.
Len Osanic I have a quick question. Did you have that in writing then from the LA police that there was a 20 year limit on it?
Scott Enyart No, they never admitted that. It was admitted in court, so it's in our court records, but the LAPD never admitted to that fact other than on the stand.
Len Osanic Right, and to back up further one second, when you were detained and your film was confiscated, what would you describe that treatment like?
Scott Enyart I was treated very well. I was taken along with Rosey Grier and George Plimpton, a lot of other witnesses were there in the pantry. The police treated us actually very well. I was 15 years old. I was all shook up and scared. At that age, the police department was my friend in every aspect of my life. I never had bad dealings with them or anything. And so they were very comforting to me and "oh, we're going to take care of you", and they called my parents and everything and they questioned me at great lengths and they gave me back my camera and said, "Hey, we're going to take care of your film and everything," and then you know, I went on my way.
It was after that point when I came back to the LAPD even the following morning and said, "Gee, I'd like a receipt for the fact that you took my film," and it was the following day that I noticed things were a little bit strange when they said, "We have absolutely no record of you ever being here." And that continued on through that 20 year period where they were less and less likely to return my phone calls, came from, "Oh yeah, Scott, we remember you," to, "We don't know who you are," after 20 years. And that's why we ended up filing the lawsuit because of the way we were being treated.
Len Osanic And was that always by a certain spokesman? Did you talk to several policemen or was there-
Scott Enyart Well, I spoke specifically with the police officers who took me into custody, and then specifically with the detectives of Special Unit Senator and most of those guys retired along the way there. By the time we got to the 20 years out, I was talking to absolute strangers and whoever the political officials happened to be who were in charge of getting rid of this, which ended up being the city attorney's office. And that's where things started to get ugly where the city attorney's office not only the people who were working in that office started ignoring us, but they then hired an outside law firm. This guy Skip Miller out of Century City which they paid over a million dollars to to basically just get rid of our case and that's when things started getting ugly.
Len Osanic Hold it. So, they paid an outside attorney-
Scott Enyart Yes.
Len Osanic Not the city attorney.
Scott Enyart That's right, and the city attorney's office has over 200 some odd lawyers. Apparently none of them were good enough to fight this simple property case. So, they hired this guy Skip Miller who was Mayor Riordan's personal attorney. He got the Rodney King cops off on their trial and their federal trial, and he got Nate Holden, city councilman here, off on sexual harassment charges. He got Michael Jackson out of his child molestation charges, bought his way out of that. This guy is a real wheeler dealer and charges big bucks, and they spend well over a million dollars during our trial. Close to two million dollars now going into a second trial in trying to attack us. Basically it turned from trying to find my film to personal attacks on me and what I do for a living and me as a human being, and it got very ugly.
Len Osanic I can't believe that. A million dollars? Okay, so we're in at 1988-
Scott Enyart Right.
Len Osanic And you're taking your first case. Who did you subpoena?
Scott Enyart We brought in Thomas Noguchi, we brought in Ted Chirac who's the great granddaddy of conspiracy theories, we brought in my father, photographic experts, absolutely everybody that was pertinent to this case. We even brought in Bernard Parks because he was the assistant deputy at the time and the judge refused to allow him in. Half the LAPD brass showed up on the day Bernard Parks was supposed to be on the stand. No one knew that he was going to be our new police chief. Of course, they knew it in the government that this guy was up and it would look bad for him to be on the stand and have to expose any secrets, so they moved mountains to make sure that Bernard Parks was not put on the stand during our trial.
It was a tremendous amount of political influence that went along with this and the city, what they didn't realize was they thought this was a simple property case and that they were going to just be able to crush me and get rid of me. We were very well prepared for this trial and had all this research. The problem is when they hired this guy Skip Miller out of century city, he knew nothing about photography, he knew nothing about the Robert F. Kennedy assassination. They claimed at the beginning of the trial that there was no way we were going to talk about what took place during the assassination that night. All they were going to talk about was what happened to the film afterward and every witness that we put on we were able to put on we were able to bring out everything that happened that night during the Kennedy trial.
Paul Shrade testified for us. He was shot in the forehead during this whole unfortunate thing. So, we had a lot of people who were there that night. Ted Chirac, who brought to life exactly what happened, what happened in that pantry, the opposition brought in Bill Eppridge, Time photographer, Dansen, a photographer from ...
Len Osanic Okay, you're going very quick. I'm going to slow down a bit. You subpoenaed these people. Did you bring in any of the detectives interviewed you that night?
Scott Enyart Yes. We brought in two of the detectives who were there.
Len Osanic So, they were still on duty or they retired?
Scott Enyart No, they were retired. Shields was one of them. These are the guys that we put on the stand and they admitted that they took me into custody, they basically admitted everything all the way down the line.
Len Osanic So, they confirmed what happened?
Scott Enyart Exactly. They always confirmed what happened. We had so many documents out of the California archives that the LAPD had turned over. Part of the problem was, during the trial, was if we couldn't produce the officer who had signed these documents, the other side would claim well, how do we know that's from the LAPD? Well, the LAPD put it in the California state archives and said it was from the LAPD. We had to actually bring in the people who signed the documents, many of whom were retired or dead, in order to bring that in. So, they stripped our case early on of documents that stated he was in the pantry, he was on the table, he was taking pictures during the shooting. A lot of that never got to the jury.
We had to prove that through other means. But fortunately, we had the actual tape recording of my interview with police and we got that through the California State Archives and on that taped interview, I draw a map for the detectives as to where I went, where I was and what I was photographing the entire time and once the jury heard that and that was confirmed by the officers who were there. That's pretty much what sealed the fate and why we won that jury trial.
Len Osanic Okay. So, that was in 1988?
Scott Enyart That was in 1996 that the trial took place.
Len Osanic Oh, so it took several years?
Scott Enyart 20 years for us to get to-
Len Osanic No, but when you first started in 1988 it took another eight years or whatever.
Scott Enyart That's right. That's right. 96 is when we finally got the trial.
Len Osanic So, in 96, you got a jury trial.
Scott Enyart We go a jury trial and we won that jury verdict. We won over half a million dollars from the city.
Len Osanic So, okay, can you tell me a little more about the final verdict on this one?
Scott Enyart Well, the final verdict, they found that the LAPD had altered and changed evidence and that they had not been honest and that the value of the film was tremendous and that the ... Well, the other thing that was interesting was that during trial, just before trial, they claim that they found my film. They claim that the California State Archives, they found my film. Now, they went up there, on their own, they took a police officer who was with me the night of the assassination and all the sudden they claim we got a role of film here that's Scott Enyart's and we got a piece of paper here signed by the police officer who took him into custody, a police report that claims that this is his film. So, we insisted that these documents and this film be brought to court for us to examine.
Well, it was brought to court, and the way to the court house, the courier was robbed. He was robbed just out of LAPD jurisdiction out there by the airport and this poor courier was sitting in his car and all the sudden some guy slashes the tires of his car, he pulls over, they reach in the back and they steal the briefcase with the film and the evidence in it and this guy shows up in court with nothing. So, they conveniently created film, they brought it down to court and when it came time to get it to court, it conveniently disappeared.
Anita Langley Wasn't this the second attempt to bring the film to court?
Scott Enyart This was the second attempt that they had to bring it to court. The first time they attempted to bring it to court, the courier brought it in, the police courier, and the package had been opened and examined and so the judge said, "This is spoiled evidence. Send it back." So, they sent it back to the California State Archives. It was re-inventoried and it was sealed again and the second time it came out, and the second time, it was stolen on its way to court. It's just ridiculous. And then we put this officer on the stand and presented this document to him that he had signed, and we asked him, "Well, when did you sign it?" He said, "Well, I don't remember." And then we said, "Well, did you sign it 20 years ago or did you sign it yesterday?" And he could not remember. He just wouldn't talk.
Anita Langley You mentioned Skip Miller before and all his connections. I understand, perhaps you can correct me if I'm wrong, that he placed a call to find out what car company-
Scott Enyart Oh, yeah. His office called that courier company. They wanted to know when the courier was arriving, what car he was renting, what color the car was and what the route was that he was taking to the courthouse. So, the suspicious stuff just goes back incredibly toward Miller and his boys, and Miller-
Len Osanic I've got to cut you off here for just second. Can you go over that again? How did you find that out?
Scott Enyart We put the courier on the stand, and we deposed him on video tape and played it for the jury and they stated that Skip Miller's office called the morning the package was supposed to arrive and they wanted to know what time the flight arrived, they wanted the description of the courier, and they wanted to know what car he was renting and what color the car was and what route he was taking.
Len Osanic What color the car was?
Scott Enyart Yeah. What route he was taking from the airport to the courthouse, which is just ridiculous.
Len Osanic Beyond unbelievable.
Scott Enyart Yeah. We talked to the courier, the owner of the courier service, and he says in 25 years of delivering packages, he says the only questions I ever get are "when's it going to get here and how much is it going to cost". Nobody asks me what the route is or what color the car is. And so this was tremendously suspicious and of course it took place in Culver City outside of LAPD jurisdiction so we couldn't say it was LAPD cops. Same thing happened when we went to appeal, when time came to appeal this, all the sudden the entire clerk's record disappeared from the courthouse. It was stolen. The entire record, the clerk's record of our trial had been stolen from the courthouse. So, this had to be reconstructed through attorney's notes and things like this through the appeal process, so they've been playing fast and loose with the facts through this whole process.
Scott Enyart Another thing that happened was during jury deliberations, Skip Miller contacted the jury foreman, took him to his office and took a statement from him while this guy is in a enpaneled juror during deliberations and-
Anita Langley Isn't that strictly forbidden?
Scott Enyart It's strictly forbidden. And Skip Miller was then taken before the California State Bar, he was charged with this crime, he was found guilty of it. His defense was that, oh he had the FirstAamendment ... he had the right to talk to anybody that he wanted to, then he blamed it on an associate. He claimed that another lawyer in his office had looked up the wrong statute and given him the wrong information and that associate since then has been made full partner in his law firm.
If someone had actually caused Skip Miller to jeopardize his license he would've been found dead in the parking lot of that law firm but instead this guy's promoted to full partner. So Skip Miller was found guilty by the California State Bar of what amounts to jury tampering, illegal contact with a juror, and so it was just outrageous and his punishment was, originally the prosecution wanted to take his license for at least two months, and he negotiated a deal, 'cause he's mister hotshot, he ended up with one day of ethics training class was his punishment for contacting the juror during deliberations during a trial.
Len Osanic Oh. Again, unbelievable.
Scott Enyart Yeah, it's just outrageous the abuse of power, it's just truly offensive the way this thing has gone down.
Len Osanic Well, you're one of our quickest speaking guests so I've gotta keep backing you up.
Scott Enyart Sure.
Len Osanic So pardon me about that. Now you mentioned the word "appeal" so the first trial the jury found in your favor.
Scott Enyart First trial jury found in our favor, they were found guilty I believe it was on 14 different counts and so we were awarded over half a million dollars from the city and basically since supposedly this film had been destroyed, there was nothing for them to hand over or anything like that, and so we just waited. We went into the appeals process, city spending more and more hundreds of thousands of dollars of city money-
Len Osanic Well what you're saying is the city appealed the decision then?
Scott Enyart That's right.
Len Osanic Okay.
Scott Enyart City appealed the decision.
Len Osanic They didn't wanna pay.
Scott Enyart They didn't wanna pay. That's right. And so despite the fact that they'd spent two or three times that in court, what the judgment was, they were not gonna pay me one dime. And so we went into the appeals process and in the appeals process they used the fact they claimed that the jurors had preconceived notions about the LAPD.
One of the jurors had mentioned that the members of the LAPD have routinely sort of taken advantage of people in the minority community in terms of falsifying evidence, which ends up being true out of Rampart Station, which is where I was taken in fact, and so the appeals court overturned our decision based on juror misconduct, the juror misconduct, which was inspired by Skip Miller contacting the jury.
Len Osanic So they over turned your award-
Scott Enyart That's right.
Len Osanic On juror misconduct when he had been charged, had he had been charged?
Scott Enyart That's right, he had been charged. He had been charged and found guilty.
Len Osanic He had been charged to serve the one day-
Scott Enyart He had been charged and found guilty of illegal contact with the jury.
Len Osanic And I haven't heard a word of this in the news.
Scott Enyart That's right. That's right. It was all buried, you know nothing came out and so we are now facing our second trial and so we're in preparation now to go back into court and fight this battle again and so that's the decision that I have to make right now is to whether or not I wanna go back to another seven weeks of trial and the kind of abuse that we've been put through and the stress on my family and finances and everything and so they've been talking about settling out of court and there are negotiations going back and forth, but it's the same old dirty tricks, the same old ugly, trying to silence me, you know, "Well if we settle then you can't talk about it." you know this kinda thing. And so we're back up there for round two.
Anita Langley Sounds like quite a fight you've got on your hands.
Scott Enyart Yeah. And you talk about 30 years out of my life here as something that I really didn't wanna do, I just wanted my film back. At every step of the way I turn to my attorneys and I go, "You know I wanna go to court, you know I don't wanna do this." they kept going, "Hey you know we're winning, we keep winning, you can't back out now." And if we hadn't one at every stage of it I would've walked away a long time ago but it just became so offensive the way we were being treated.
Originally it was about getting my film back then it became "how can you treat me as citizen here, I come voluntarily and give you my film, shut up about it for 20 years, go ahead and use, don't ask for anything, don't ask for anything back just return my film" and instead of saying, "Hey let's go look for it and thank you, you're a good citizen" they start attacking me and my character and I was forced to see a psychiatrist before trial. They claimed that I was, they went through my school records and claimed that I was a liar and basically a liar and a thief you by the time I was-
Len Osanic I gotta cut you off here, so they were attacking you personally?
Scott Enyart Oh yeah. I was -
Len Osanic What kinda questioning would be brought on? Like how-
Scott Enyart I was forced to see a psychiatrist. They claimed that because of, it took me a long time to learn how to read in elementary school or something I couldn't tell time and I was some perpetual liar and so my testimony couldn't be trusted. I had to see a psychiatrist and was forced to take all kinds of sort of humiliating, insulting examinations, you know, "Do you hate your father, did your dad kill your puppy when you were a kid?" type questions over and over again before trial.
Now of course this was all thrown out by the judge but I still had to go through it and I had still had to hire my own psychiatrist to prove the opposite side and everything and this was just done by Skip Miller's office as a way of wasting taxpayer money in a way of intimidating me and my family and trying to stop me from going through with this process.
Len Osanic It's unbelievable. You mean you were forced by a court order to see-
Scott Enyart Yes. Forced by a court orders.
Len Osanic A psychiatrist ahead of time-
Scott Enyart Yes to be examined by a psychiatrist.
Len Osanic For claiming recovery of a property.
Scott Enyart That's right. That's right.
Len Osanic You couldn't get your lawyers to get that turned around?
Scott Enyart The only way I could so it was by going through with the examination and proving that it was false.
Len Osanic God.
Scott Enyart That's how ridiculous this system is.
Anita Langley You know I think, just hearing you say this, you've basically answered a question that I had, that being, what would be gained by the city for drawing this out a second round instead of just settling with you.
Scott Enyart Well exactly. And they never even offered a settlement, you know? I might've gone away for three roles of film and an apology if they had asked. But instead because this guy Skip Miller had no motivation to have this thing settled, you know every time he goes to them and he says, "Hey we're gonna win. You can't let this guy win, if he wins ... " the other thing is if we had won, it would've changed the law in terms of how they handle evidence. They would've had to actually ask your permission to take something out of your house, they couldn't just come and grab it, they would've had to take care of it and they would've had to give it back to you and if they didn't they would've had to pay you back the value of it.
And you until now the LAPD does not have that restriction on them and this was evident right after the riots here in Los Angeles. The police went door to door confiscating videotapes and still pictures that people had taken of people during the riots, and they wanted to use this stuff so that they could get people who were looters and ruffians on the street and put them behind bars. But they went door to door confiscating this stuff with no warrants, just taking this away from people and you know it's one thing if you come to my door and you say, "Hey you have some evidence here we could use in trial, can we give you a receipt for it, can we borrow it and make a copy of it and give it right back to you?" that's one thing but to come in and say, "Give us your film, give us your scrapbooks, give us your personal stuff we're gonna use it in trial." is absolutely against everything that I was raised with in this country in terms of right to privacy.
Len Osanic So in that case did the jury make recommendations, like sometimes they do, meaning that the LA police is gonna have to be responsible?
Scott Enyart Exactly. As a result of our trial the statute would've been changed in terms of standard of care, which now is, that the LAPD has a "slight" standard of care. What does "slight" mean, you know? They throw it in the truck of the car and maybe it's there when we get to the station. It would've elevated that standard of care to "reasonable", in other words they would've had to take care of it, give you a receipt for and make an effort to return it to you and store it in a locked up fashion.
So that was one of the reasons why all this weight came down on my trial was that, "We have to defeat this guy, if this guy opens this door ... " this is gonna shackle the police department in terms of their being able to investigate crime here in Los Angeles just because you'd have to ask somebody's permission before you knock down their door and take their scrapbooks and home videos.
Len Osanic Yeah, that's one way of looking at it. The other way of looking at it is that there is evidence in your trial that Bobby Kennedy was killed by someone other than Sirhan and you had photographic evidence of that and they would stop at any length because what you're saying about the changing of the law in LA county about they handle evidence that wouldn't explain all the records of your trial being stolen.
Scott Enyart That's right. Exactly.
Len Osanic So there's one way to look at, an apologist point of view saying, "Well we had to bring this weight down because we don't wanna change, we don't wanna handcuff our policemen for making their illegal searches", right?
Scott Enyart Right.
Len Osanic But, and give people a basic right of, like you say a receipt, so if somebody does have a videotape of something that they want it for the news or they wanna put their hands on it but I think it's a deeper, I can't think of the right word but subversive-
Scott Enyart Oh yeah an effort to silence, you know? And that's really what came through in this trial is they don't want citizens speaking out like this, they don't want me to have this venue, this right. It was a very offensive process once Skip Miller and the city turned their attacks toward me personally as opposed to just dealing with this, as a simple property case. You know they towed my car away out of my driveway and they didn't return it, they lost it, it's a very expensive so pay me for it.
Instead, it turned into this personal attack on me and whether or not I was a photographer and all these other things that ends up just bleeding me, and the city, dry of money and accomplishing nothing. The other thing is they got the press banned from our trial. Court TV wanted to cover this, there was kinds of news coverage and they got the press thrown out of the courtroom. We came in right after the OJ trial and so they threw the press out of our trial and so we had only very limited press coverage. People were allowed in there, basically with a pencil and a paper to cover his trial and all media analysis is pretty much electronic or at least audio and so they banned all of that from our trial.
And that was ridiculous, if we go back in a second time it will not be banned we've already talked to Court TV and a number of other people that wanna cover this trial so that the people see what's going on behind closed doors.
Anita Langley What was the excuse for banning, was it just the OJ trial?
Scott Enyart Because of all the fallout that had happened with the OJ Simpson trial. They claimed that they would have to sequester the jury and they couldn't, you know it would taint the jury pool and all this other stuff, all that's been overturned since then. But because of all the furor following the OJ thing with everybody camping downtown and everything we lost a lotta ground there and yeah, exactly, it's absurd. The press was thrown out.
Len Osanic I was under the impression that two weeks ago that something was up? So-
Scott Enyart That they're offering settlement, they wanna go into, we have a judge who is a pro-settlement judge and he would like us to negotiate. So things are going on between the attorneys and between the city right now as we speak in terms of whether or not they're gonna come to us with a reasonable settlement that doesn't include gagging me saying that I can't speak about this or I can't write about this and I don't wanna put the city through another trial, I don't wanna put the city though the expense of it, I don't wanna put my family through this or have to put my friends and associates-
Len Osanic I wouldn't worry about the city's expense because it seemed like they didn't care about it all.
Scott Enyart Exactly. They didn't care about it all but I do as a taxpayer I don't want to see them run up another million, two million dollars behind the scenes. You know if this was out in the open and everyone could see what was going that would be one thing but to just have this behind the scenes, you know, money machine running the tab on both the city and myself and no information getting out. You know I'll fight this thing in the press like I have before, you know and that's what I told them, I said, "This second trial will be about Rampart Station, which is where this took place and this will be about Skip Miller who was found guilty by the Bar of illegal contact with a juror." This is gonna be a much bigger case that just whether or not they lost my film, it'll be about film being stolen, it'll be about court records being stolen and I'll try this on the courthouse steps if I have to no matter how much they gag me behind closed doors.
Anita Langley It must be very hard for an average citizen to go after justice in this, these trials cost a lot of money even if you don't have the super high-priced lawyer.
Scott Enyart That's right, that's right. I've been fortunate and I had the resources and I've had a lot of friends and attorneys that have come forward here and political activists, guys like Paul Schrade and stuff, I'm sorry Ted Chirac and Paul Schrade who've come forward to help me with this and so I've been able to muster a lot of forces behind me, but to do this again with just to know that we're gonna back and if we go back to the appeals court we go back before the same three judges who threw us out the first time. It automatically goes back before those same guys so-
Anita Langley There seems to be something wrong with that.
Scott Enyart Yeah. There's something seriously wrong with that system.
Len Osanic Well maybe that's what you need to get out in public.
Scott Enyart That's right, so I'll be fighting this like I am on your show and I appreciate the opportunity to come on here because these are the forums in which we really get the points across you know I'm not gagged by my attorneys or the judge telling me I can't talk about this, that or the other thing we get to bring out all the issues and the public gets to decide, you know the public is not stupid and that's the way we're treated. We're treated like we're idiots, like we're children and that we're not capable of handling this information and we certainly are and we're capable of, after all these years, and we're entitled to a review of what happened that night, to review of this evidence before everybody is dead. You know I was 15 years old at the time so we've lost four or five witnesses who were there that night in the pantry there and so before all of this evidence and before all these people disappear we're entitled to a clean airing of this and just get the information out there.
You know I never claimed conspiracy or ten bullets or this, that or the other thing, I just want the facts out there, let the people decide for themselves, come to whatever decisions they want to on this but we're entitled to that information and now with internet and so many more people out there, investigative reporters, people like you doing a job like this, we're gonna get that information out there to the public where it belongs.
Anita Langley Well as hard as it's been on you in the court of public opinion, this sort of case makes a big difference, it might not get into mainstream media, but people take an interest when leaders are assassinated and that doesn't die down in just a couple of years.
Scott Enyart Well that's what I found and it's been very encouraging when you know people like you call me up or people will stop me in the courthouse and say, "You know I've been following this case ... " 'cause it takes tremendous effort to go out and research something like this, it doesn't show up on the cover of Los Angeles Times. You gotta dig for this stuff, you've gotta find people like you on the air or these little journals that come out or go on the internet or go research the archives yourselves to really get the information and make up your mind for yourselves of what's taken place here.
Anita Langley You mentioned that you had the coroner, Thomas Noguchi-
Scott Enyart That's right.
Anita Langley On the stand-
Scott Enyart Yeah.
Anita Langley Can you tell us what he had to say about the gunshot wounds?
Scott Enyart Well Thomas Noguchi stated that these were contact wounds and that he was not satisfied that they had come from Sirhan's gun and that had he had my photographs they could've entirely changed the results of his autopsy report. He would've had the information of what took place behind Robert Kennedy during the shooting and when all three bullet wounds entered from behind Bobby Kennedy, he said that this information would've been really the basis for bullet trajectories and who was where and firing what and at what height and what distance in this case. And so he was adamant in saying that had he had access to these photographs this could've very well changed the outcome, he would've had that much more information to add to his autopsy report.
Len Osanic And as I understand, there's a lawyer fighting for a new trial for Sirhan right now.
Scott Enyart That's right. Lawrence Teeter has been battling away and we've given him access to a lot of our court files and things and vice versa, they fed us a lot of information. They have Lynn Mangan, who is a tremendous researcher whose done a lot of just real good research going up there to the California State Archives. She discovered this evidence being opened up, numbers 24 and 25, evidence being moved from one book to another. She would go up there and photograph the logbook and then go up there a couple years later, open up that same logbook and photograph it and it'd been changed.
Here's something in the California State Archives from the LAPD and all of a sudden someone's going up there and altering this evidence? It's just been absolutely shocking so there's a tremendous amount of stuff, there's no doubt that Sirhan walked in there and emptied his gun, how he got there, why he was there, whether he was hypnotized or not, whether or not his gun fired the bullet that actually killed him, these are huge questions, you know? You may have some guy in there who's certainly he's guilty of going in there and starting this whole this but he didn't kill the guy. Maybe he didn't fire the bullet that killed Bobby Kennedy, maybe none of the bullets he fired hit anybody. The point is, we just don't know right now and so it's a tremendous injustice. I'm not out to free anybody but I'm out there to free our minds and to find out what information is there and then whatever happens, happens.
Len Osanic Well I think one telling tale, when you talk about be hypnotized is that Sirhan has no memory, I think up until this day of really what happened.
Scott Enyart And that's an important thing because you know Sirhan would sell out anybody to get outta jail. This guy's pretty unhappy, if he could remember anything and go, "Hey that guy did this, that guy did that." and he could get a little chunk knocked off his jail time, he would do it, he desperately wants out of jail. So in that sense I have to admit he has some credibility when he says, "I don't remember." because this guy would turn in anybody to get outta jail.
Len Osanic That's a pretty amazing and there hasn't been any press really about that effort-
Scott Enyart Right.
Len Osanic You mentioned his lawyer, or legal team, I forget did you say it was actually his lawyer?
Scott Enyart Lawrence Teeter.
Len Osanic Yeah.
Scott Enyart His lawyer who's handling the case. Well the press stays away from it, the Los Angeles Times, you know we've got a one newspaper town here and everybody, other than that, you watch two, four, and seven, maybe channel 11 for a little bit of video news. People don't dig deep for that and that's why radio news and that's why a lot of these alternative journals and things like that really make a huge difference when you get into these deep political issues that aren't the eye candy of the day, you know they're not the, you know I turn on the news today and it's another guy outrunning the police for 45 minutes instead of sitting down there and analyzing some hard hitting story that affects all of us like whose killing our leaders.
Len Osanic Yeah, or completely subverting the justice system.
Scott Enyart That's right. That's right. Instead, we're distracted by bright, shiny objects here like a buncha squirrels, you know? People here deserve a great deal more here, the people out here and the generations, I've got kids now in college and their level of understanding and their level of research that they demand before they make a decision on something is such a higher standard than there was when I was a kid. That it really hurts me to see the media pandering to the lowest common denominator.
Len Osanic Especially the lying that you see.
Scott Enyart Yes.
Len Osanic I mean today the recent news is what they think that flight, TWA flight 800-
Scott Enyart Right.
Len Osanic Is now some kind of fuel tank.
Scott Enyart Right.
Len Osanic And there's all sorts of people that are calling out for ... none of the eye-witnesses were called to testify and I think there's over 50 and there's I think a Commander Donaldson and a few other people, I won't get into that whole-
Scott Enyart That's right. What are they afraid of?
Len Osanic Yeah. The thing is that they're so used to getting away with it and they've been able to pull the wool over our eyes but they, you know Ted Turner sold out CNN to that conglomerate that bought it and that was the last time they had any independent news reporting.
Scott Enyart Right.
Len Osanic And they totally I think as April Oliver had mentioned that it's been confirmed that I think, don't quote me on this but I think 80 people from the -
Anita Langley I think it was 30.
Len Osanic 30?
Anita Langley 30.
Len Osanic 30 people from black operations were in there in the newsroom doing training on how to color the news.
Scott Enyart Right. No, what we're in the midst of a very quiet revolution and what you're doing here on the internet and the small radio stations and the independent magazines, the zines that are coming out and everything, this is really the future. You know they can't control information, they really can't put a cap on it here and as much as MP3 files-
Len Osanic Well, yeah.
Scott Enyart Or stealing copy written music, at the same time that same types of technology, when you apply it to news groups or to transferring information or immediate response from the scene, from people who really know what's going on, real witnesses and stuff, it think we're on the verge of something tremendous here in terms of liberation, in terms of information being taken out of the hands of the big publishers and the big networks and being put in the hands of people who could sit literally in their garage and disseminate news -
Len Osanic Oh, you've seen our studio? Well, you know, I'd love to agree with you except that what we're up against is a very well financed machinery and it takes people doing low key, I mean if we had a little wireless station you'd call us "pirate radio" or something transmitting to you know 12 watts. Luckily we're able to broadcast and but even better we're able to archive the shows so we may have a limit of how many people can log on at one time, that we don't have any limit of how many people can listen to archived shows.
Scott Enyart That's right, squirrel it away and you know it's like a "Fahrenheit 451" you know everybody memorize a book.
Len Osanic Yeah.
Anita Langley Well I do have to agree with you I think that actually the information age that's coming on us right now is probably taking a lot of people by surprise. I know for myself and Len and for a lot of people around here who are more into the computers, we were into this years ago and I know I couldn't have foreseen how fast it would grow and how quickly information would change hands.
Scott Enyart Well and what's terrific is the older generation and I'm talking about the generation above me, and me to a certain degree, the fact that I don't understand it is tremendous you know because so much gets done under my nose and under the nose of the old establishment that by the time that this thing is out there and wired up and everybody's on it they won't even know what hit them.
Anita Langley Exactly. I'm very optimistic about that myself.
Scott Enyart Yeah.
Anita Langley We have some gloomy topics on here but the bottom line is the information gets out and people are aware and that's what makes change.
Scott Enyart The information sets you free.
Anita Langley Exactly.
Scott Enyart Absolutely.
Len Osanic Well hopefully. But, another reason is that there's a few people that I've wanted to speak to and you were one of them and I don't see any news coverage, I don't see anything so it's been up to me actually to go out and make a call and say, "Can I talk to you on the air?", you know?
Scott Enyart That's right.
Len Osanic And you know on the same token I'd love to talk to you William Pepper who just did the Martin Luther King trial in Memphis and once again I'm scouring the internet and I can't find any articles. I find one or two kind of rather uncomplimentary articles from Memphis and of course there's this famous Gerald Posner, right?
Scott Enyart Sure.
Len Osanic I hate even bringing his name up so. "Poisoner" I should call him. But, on this topic of film and the Robert Kennedy assassination I think the only conclusion, that I draw, is that they're worried about uncovering what really went on and making that even more in the mainstream.
Scott Enyart Right.
Len Osanic And with that, have you ever been approached by Oliver Stone at all?
Scott Enyart Oliver Stone has kept track of what we were doing through the whole thing 'cause JFK was produced during the prep time during our trial and so we've been able to get documents back and forth between and they've fed us a number of documents and things so yeah that's all real closed circuit.
I've been approached by many people to do books and TV movies and things like that and I've always want to keep this trial a very pure thing, I've never taken a dime for an interview or the use of a photo or anything like that, until this thing finally concludes, you won't be seeing a movie or book or anything like that until we wind through the courts and come to a reasonable conclusion.
You know once that happens then we'll probably go to that next step starting with, I've been taking notes obviously my journals and things for a book and we'll see what happens from there but I wanna be very careful about this exploiting somebody's death for profit has always been very ugly thing and there's a very fine that you have to tread there in terms of whether or not it's worthwhile to get that information out and you get someone like Oliver Stone who has at least a background and at least a strong political point of view and a certain purity to it whether you agree with him or not, has that certain power to get that message across and so if I find that kind of a medium and it's not exploitative then we might take that to another level.
Len Osanic Right because you had mention you had been approached by Court TV.
Scott Enyart That's right.
Len Osanic So is that something that you would get, if they did cover the trial you would get any compensation?
Scott Enyart No. We'd get no compensation at all. So basically -
Len Osanic So but this is gonna be costing your side hundreds of thousands of dollars though.
Scott Enyart Well Court TV comes in there and then they basically put their cameras in and they cover the trial, the cost to me is the cost of putting on another offensive and so whether or not that's worthwhile we've already won our jury trial, whether or not we wanna do that, whether or not we wanna cause the city to cough up that much money in their absurd defense of it, we'll just have to see if that's the best forum for it.
Sometimes the best forum for it now is on the radio with guys like or you know maybe in book form and that's what I'm having to mull over now at this point in my life. I put a quarter of a century into this battle, it's time for me to sort of wrap this thing up and move on to the next one.
Len Osanic Right. But, saying that, I think that if you did have financial resources behind you if we made this a little more public I think there's a lot of people that would be surprised and actually wanna know what had been going on especially in your case when you have firsthand evidence of mistreatment of something simple as just, like you say wanting your film back to turning into personal attacks, psychiatric reviews, and on and on, I mean you must have more stories that you wanna talk about -
Scott Enyart Yeah no, in that sense you haven't heard the last of me yet. Whether or not the best forum for that is another trial or something else that's what I've gotta figure out, you know we're just reigning everything in now and looking at the damage that this has caused and the emotional turmoil that this has put all of my family through and everything, you know. My wife, she was my girlfriend at the time this thing happened, we've been together since we were 13 years old and I didn't put her on the stand in the first trial and she's all you know, ready to go now in the second trial going, "Put me up there, I wanna, you know-"
Len Osanic: Oh that's great that you have support.
Scott Enyart You know I wanna let you guys know what really happened type of a thing but that's exactly what I don't want, I don't wanna drag my family into this and stuff. Now so-
Len Osanic Now there's other people like Jim Garrison and other people -
Scott Enyart Yeah, you saw through that. What a toll this takes and watching that movie that was hard for me because I became this monster in my house, obsessed with these other things these bigger issues and the main thing is to let something like be affecting how your family moves forward over that amount of time it's a big sacrifice. You gotta be careful.
Len Osanic I mean you could debate that, I would say that really it should be worth it. You're trying to make-
Scott Enyart Well that's the thing is it's been worth it so far and so now going do I wanna I wind up and do this thing again at this point in life you know that's why I've gotta say, "Gee, maybe there's a better way to do this, maybe it's a book, maybe it's movie. I don't know if it's necessarily the arena of the courtroom where all the benefits are on their side because they have unlimited resources and attorneys ready to go. Is that where I want to fight this battle?"
Anita Langley You do make a good point, because this is already being brought out in court and in the public eye, if you could make a movie or a book or actually probably a movie would reach a lot more people.
Scott Enyart That's right.
Anita Langley That part would probably get to the people's ear a lot quicker than another court case.
Scott Enyart We've already fought it in the public arena, we already won, and we have that record. I have tapes here of the entire seven weeks of trial. Seven weeks of trial, they put mass murderers away in two weeks.
Len Osanic I have a question for you then, with all the official court records being stolen, are your records, I'm trying to think of a better word than legitimate?
Scott Enyart Oh yeah, we have the audio recordings of every day of court, so that's what we had to do was we had to reconstruct, through these audio recordings, had to retranscribe everything in order to piece back together what took place in that courtroom for the appeal, so it's a tremendous amount of work. I've got a box here with about 100 two-hour tapes in it. That'll be the next thing for me to sit down and do. At least that's within our control and the record is clean and clear and we can basically convict them with their own words.
Len Osanic Right. Was there something that stood out in the first trial when you had these people and you were able to, as you said, pull out evidence about the actual shooting, nevermind just the property issue, that maybe isn't as public knowledge?
Scott Enyart I think a lot of people don't realize that the LAPD was not there before the shooting took place, they didn't arrive until over 20 minutes after the shooting took place, that there were three guns in that pantry there. Sirhan had a gun that held eight bullets, Rafer Johnson took that gun away from Sirhan and put it in his pocket. The murder weapon supposedly left the Ambassador Hotel in his pocket. There was another FBI agent who had a gun who was with the Kennedy family, the same guy that was involved with Ted Kennedy during the rape trial of his cousin.
We know that there were three guns in that pantry that were waved around and possibly fired and emptied. All of them left that pantry out of the control of the LAPD. Rafer Johnson handed over the gun to the police at the hospital where Bobby Kennedy was dying. There were at least two guns booked into evidence at Rampart Station. I've seen autopsy photographs where Bobby Kennedy is on the autopsy table, and right next to him they have the murder weapon. We've blown up that murder weapon, and it does not match that murder weapon that was presented at trial, entered by the police.
Len Osanic That's astounding. You're telling me that they have records of two guns?
Scott Enyart They have records of two guns, conflicting records of two guns. Different site, different barrel length, entirely different weapons. Both hold eight shots, and I've had these analyzed by weapons experts. You can't dispute a photograph that has Bobby Kennedy's shoulder in it and the supposed murder weapon, and then the official court records from Sirhan's trial which show photographs of the gun booked into evidence by Wolfer, who was the ballistics expert. Those guns don't match. They don't match by serial number, and they don't match by profile and description.
Len Osanic That's amazing. I did not know that.
Scott Enyart Yeah. People should know about this.
Anita Langley Okay, so it's one thing to say that people are just doing their job and they believed Sirhan Sirhan is guilty, and probably, like you say, on the ground level, most of them did feel that way, but at some point, somebody had to be making a concerted effort to bury evidence.
Scott Enyart You bet.
Anita Langley That's not a theory when it comes down to it. You have actual evidence.
Scott Enyart That's right.
Anita Langley So let people say what they want. I know a lot of people who get involve in research get called conspiracy theorists, and they get rightfully offended when they're dealing with facts.
Scott Enyart Sure. A lot of this took place in those hours late at night between when the LAPD was in control of the scene, as weak and as inefficient as that was, and then the guys from Washington start showing up, and the FBI starts calling up and calling the LAPD going, "We don't want another Dallas."
There was one investigation where the LAPD tried to get everything under control, and you've got a bunch of ground level cops doing the best job they can on night shift, and I don't begrudge those guys for making mistakes and doing the best they can with the resources that they have. I do blame Mayor Sam Yorty for not having police at the Ambassador Hotel protecting Bobby Kennedy to begin with. I blame Sam Yorty for the police department calls up, and on the recorded call from the Ambassador Hotel, the LAPD has to ask "Senator who?" And then has to ask directions to the Ambassador Hotel, which takes up 19 acres five blocks away from Rampart Station.
That's one lousy part of the investigation, but the second wave that comes in from Washington, the power of the Kennedy family coming in there not wanting another Dallas, the power of the FBI coming in there, wanting to control the situation and with all the information they had on the Kennedys and political ramifications of what may come of this, that's when things got ugly, and then the formation, politically, of a Special Unit Senator. Who was put in charge of that? A lot of really ethical, hardcore cops coming in there trying to contain the investigation that is already out of control.
A bunch of guys who, if you'd left them alone, probably would have done a pretty good job, but you've got the FBI coming in there poking their nose in, CIA going, "Hey, we want to come in here and examine this evidence." They go in and examine the evidence and they leave and there's one gun missing, or there's a piece of paper missing or something like that, and this entire investigation and this entire situation is just chock-full of stuff like that.
Anita Langley Doesn't that actually make it more like Dallas? They wanted to avoid Dallas -
Scott Enyart Exactly.
Anita Langley It seems that the parallels just keep getting stronger.
Scott Enyart That's right. They created it with this rush to judgment, we grabbed the guy, he had the gun, there were 70 people in that pantry, the gun's empty, the guy's dead, who could argue with that? Sam Yorty came out and claimed we got the guy the next day. In a simplistic way, that's the other thing. The public wanted that conclusion. The public did not want another Dallas. They wanted a simple explanation for this. When you've got the public wanting that conclusion and then the government gratifying that need of a grieving country, Martin Luther King killed two months before that, that's what goes into the American consciousness, and that's a hard thing to erase.
Anita Langley I imagine it's pretty difficult to go from Leave It to Beaver and I Love Lucy to the startling political reality of having your leaders murdered.
Scott Enyart That's right, you bet. It was very upsetting generationally to the generation of, my father's generation going out there and fighting World War II, and then my generation of, "Hey, I'm going to go to Canada, I don't want to fight in Vietnam," and now we have this third thing here. My children, two generations from having to fight a war, being able to look back and go, "Gee, Grandpa went to war and you decided you didn't want to go to war, where do I lie here? Somewhere in the middle, where is my government? Where are my boundaries? Where are my moorings here? Where's my compass, my moral compass?"
Len Osanic Yeah, but the kind of subversion here is that if you lose faith in the government, there's some kind of subversion going on there. But when, and these aren't my words, but when that loss of faith is actually justified, that's the real deep subversion, that step. Not only can't you trust the police, but they already have somebody, for instance, drop off Sirhan, have him hypnotized, he was just there to pull out a gun, and somebody else working under the guise of the Lockheed Corporation you know uh -
Anita Langley Actually that leads me to a question. You mentioned earlier that Bobby Kennedy was late for his speech. Do you know why?
Scott Enyart He was late because he did not want to come down and announce victory without having these other two states come in and be assured of that victory. Today you got to the polls, I remember during the elections when Bush was being elected, I'm on my way to the polls here on the West Coast, and they're announcing on the radio who won already, so what's the point of voting, type of a thing?
In this case we had a much less accurate system, so Bobby Kennedy was sitting up there in his hotel room until the returns came in, until he was sure he had, I think it was Montana, California, and one other state. If he had gotten that bloc of three then it was pretty much a shoo-in that he was the candidate.
Anita Langley You did sort of mention that earlier, but what I found odd was if he had been earlier he would have taken the other route. Does that mean that somebody who knew he was going to be late and take the other route had Sirhan Sirhan there? Not knowing how the Ambassador Hotel is laid out, would it have been easy just to ferry him there when they saw what direction Kennedy was going?
Scott Enyart That's the thing, I think that Sirhan had showed up at other events where Kennedy was and missed him, so I think that Sirhan, was he hypnotized, he was sent out and given a map, he's going to be here, here, and here, and you try and get him, so I think Sirhan was pretty much on his own once he got to these locations, and I think it was just a matter of luck and happenstance as to in the last few minutes of a campaign or making these decisions on the run, are we going to go to the party, are we going to go to the press room type of a thing, it was just a matter of then coming up with the most likely circumstance in which he would run into them, but I don't think that there was any collusion between Kennedy's people and the people directing Kennedy in terms of directing him towards Sirhan. I think that that was a lucky stroke for the Sirhan forces and an unfortunate move of a disorganized campaign on Kennedy's part.
Anita Langley Actually I was even wondering if perhaps somebody outside the Kennedy campaign might have suggested they take that route. That's pretty much determined?
Scott Enyart From what I understand it was like this throughout the entire campaign. It was like, "Should we do this? Should we do that?" His campaign was a much looser, what's best for the people, what's best for the crowd. So and so is here, you've got to shake hands with so and so, and he would backtrack and go do that. That was one of the frustrations in keeping track of Kennedy as a candidate was that he was so headstrong in terms of, he would stop and he would get involved in something, or go, "Oh gee, I promised somebody I would come over there and say hi to them," or something, and he would throw the whole thing off, and I think that the randomness of that and the lack of security made him a target that if you went out there two or three times eventually you were going to bump into him, and that's what happened in this case with Sirhan.
Len Osanic Now I have a question that I may want to correct you or myself on. I was under the impression that you were telling me about just entering into the pantry, that it was the maitre d' that actually took Bobby Kennedy by the arm.
Scott Enyart The maitre d' was on his other side. You had two men taking him by the elbows. You had the maitre d', and then on the other hand you had Eugene Thane Cesar, who was the security guard. The maitre d', Karl Uecker, knew the way through, and the security guard had the official, the gun and the uniform, and was assigned to Kennedy to get him through, so you're exactly right, one was on each side of him moving him through that crowd, and that's why Karl Uecker was the first one to grab the gun, was because he was standing facing toward Eugene Thane Cesar when this happened, and Sirhan came up between the two of them in the middle.
Len Osanic Yeah, right. Okay then. Thanks, you cleared that up, because I remember when you brought that up, I was thinking, "Sometimes wrong here."
Scott Enyart It's like Kennedy really is being led to slaughter here. He's got two people leading him directly right toward where Sirhan is hiding.
Len Osanic Right, and there's some people that feel that even though Eugene Cesar had a gun out, he might not have been the one who actually pulled the fatal shots, and if somebody else was right behind him, your photographs would have showed that, because you were there.
Scott Enyart Exactly. The photographs would have shown that, and that's what's a shame about this whole thing.
Len Osanic Seconds before, and if then for the rest of the night this person isn't there, who was that right behind him and then he's gone?
Scott Enyart Yeah, and one of the difficulties here too in terms of a conspiracy is that there's really no way that you can connect Eugene Thane Cesar and Sirhan as being both part of the same conspiracy.
Len Osanic No, but you wouldn't, right?
Scott Enyart I'm sorry?
Len Osanic You wouldn't.
Scott Enyart You can't. They were totally different. Eugene Thane Cesar was way off here, a Wallace supporter, totally out there to the right, and then Sirhan here, "RFK must die," and against him approving the sale of jets to Israel and everything like that.
Len Osanic Well, yeah.
Scott Enyart If Sirhan and Cesar were together on this and they planned to kill Kennedy at this point, in the pantry, if you and I were going to kill somebody, would you say, "Okay, I'll get behind him and you get in front of him and we'll both shoot at him and basically be shooting at each other"?
Len Osanic Right.
Scott Enyart It's a pretty lousy plan. You can't connect them politically, you can't connect them logically in terms of a plan, but then again, what forces outside of the two of them got them into that same situation at the same time, it still assured the death of Kennedy, which was the ultimate objective.
Len Osanic Exactly, and I would say that, from my investigation of people in the JFK assassination, these are skilled professionals that have taken months in this kind of clandestine, covert work -
Scott Enyart That's why it's so important that people understand that you can be a willing participant in a conspiracy without knowing that you're part of it.
Len Osanic Right. As you even mentioned, did Sirhan's gun contain blanks? Maybe he was told, "It's just a warning, you're going to scare the guy, don't worry about it," and they hypnotize him. There's a lot of area for discussion here and many points of view, but I think one main point that you can't escape is that they would not be fighting tooth and nail if your photos didn't show something, and the destruction of evidence, and like you say, a foot and a half of photographs. 2400, is what you mentioned?
Scott Enyart 2400 photographs.
Len Osanic 2400 photographs -
Scott Enyart Burned in a hospital in incinerator.
Len Osanic And you have evidence of tampering with the archives, grease on the bullet, phony logs. That isn't trying to, that area, that isn't trying to protect the LA Police from having to drop a new law about how they gather evidence -
Scott Enyart That's right.
Len Osanic - And how they keep it. This is about complete corruption and keeping down any effort to expose it.
Scott Enyart Yeah, and this comes from the chief archivist and the people working at the archives. It comes from LAPD officers. It's not coming from outside whacko conspiracy nut people. It's coming from people being put on the stand who now look back going, "I was an unwilling participant here, and I was taken advantage of here and I was duped here, here's my story," and so that's why a lot of this has tremendous credibility and we were very happy to get guys like Noguchi and things like that on the stand able to tell their story, because Thomas Noguchi was not allowed to testify at Sirhan's trial. The LAPD didn't like what he had to say, so the Chief Coroner, the guy who examined and determined the cause of death of Robert F. Kennedy was not allowed to testify at Sirhan's trial.
Len Osanic As I recall I think he was threatened.
Scott Enyart He was threatened, exactly, so we were able to get him on the stand for the first time and let him testify in terms of what his conclusions were of his autopsy in the death of Robert F. Kennedy for the first time. This takes place in 1996?
Len Osanic That's ridiculous, and these records now have been stolen.
Scott Enyart We have the recorded records. The official court records, there's two records. There's witness testimony, that's intact. The clerk's record is everything that takes place outside of the ears of the jury, so motions that are brought up to the judge, discussions in judge's chambers, things like that. All the testimony is intact and is clean. That was not taken or altered, but the clerk's record, all the judge's instructions to the jury, Skip Miller being admonished for talking to the juror - and that was the other thing, is the reason why those records disappeared was because all of the testimony against Miller, in terms of how he behaved in that courtroom that would have convicted him during his bar trial, that's why those court records disappeared was so that there wouldn't be anything to prosecute him with.
Anita Langley That got him off the hook.
Scott Enyart That got him off the hook. He used our trial and those circumstances, and I feel they were able to engineer the mysterious disappearance of these records, first of all, to destroy our ability to respond to the appeal, as well as clear Miller in the investigation in which he was found guilty anyway, but he would have been found guilty much more harshly had they not been able to destroy these records, so it's just fishy from day one.
Len Osanic Yeah, unbelievable, again.
Scott Enyart Yeah. Exactly, eliminate the press coverage, cheat and lie and use all kinds of underhanded ways to hobble our opponent here. We don't have the facts on our side, so let's attack him personally. Closing arguments were just brutal. My daughter and my wife were in tears over what this man was saying about me in the courtroom. It was embarrassing, but in the fact, his attack on me personally is what made the jury rule in our favor. The jury saw right through this.
Len Osanic Was there an exit poll of jurors?
Scott Enyart Oh yeah, we talked to the jurors afterward, and as much as I would like to give credit to my attorneys and say we won this case, I have to admit that Skip Miller came in there and he lost this case. He lost this case big time by taking the tactics that he did and by attacking a citizen who did nothing but offer up his film and cooperation for 20 years and simply came back after 20 years and said, "Could I please have my pictures back?" I think the jury was truly offended by the way we were treated, and they only heard a microscopic portion of what took place, because so much was hidden from then until after the trial.
Len Osanic Right. You have audio record of some of that.
Scott Enyart That's right. We have audio records of the entire trial, all the testimony. Everything that took place in front of the jury we have audio recorded everything that went into the record. It's what took place, sidebars, judge's chambers, conversation between counsel and the judge from time to time, that we had to reconstruct, and we were still able to reconstruct that but the point is is that we didn't have the transcripts, this is specifically what Miller said at this time, this is specifically what the judge said at this time, so it made prosecuting Miller that much more difficult, and it made our appeal process that much more expensive and had little gaps and holes in it, and we were able to be overturned.
Anita Langley Has anyone come up with an explanation for how the transcripts could vanish or be stolen?
Scott Enyart No, and we talked to people and they said it's possible during a trial, big files and everything, you'd lose a file, a particular envelope, or something gets kicked under a file cabinet or you lose a couple of things, but you don't lose the entire clerk's record from an entire trial. The records keeping people, attorneys we spoke to, other judges said that's absolutely unheard of. This took place during a strike, a clerk strike at the courthouse. They took advantage of a time in which these things were relatively unguarded, and we were described by other attorneys, you just go into the file room and you say, "I'm looking for something and so and so case," and they give you a pass, and you go back there, and you can move things around willy nilly and do whatever you want, basically, and if there's not enough people there to watch or whatever, you can move an elephant out of there.
They managed to make sure that the entire transcript of the clerk's record from that trial just disappeared. An entire cart, three shelves full of documents just gone from the courthouse.
Len Osanic Three shelves full.
Scott Enyart Yeah, three shelves full is how it was described. They said, "You lose a file here and there, that happens," but they'd never heard of a case where the entire record disappeared from the courthouse.
Len Osanic It's just staggering and eye-opening and unbelievable, having this discussion with you, the scope.
Scott Enyart Yeah, we really walked into something in this case. For me it was real simple. I wrote a letter to the police chief at the time, Daryll Gates, "Please sir, can I have my three rolls of film back? You've had 20 years," and it just escalated and moved into this big huge thing. I am in no way some political activist or some guy with a bone to pick with the LAPD. I've never been arrested, never been in jail, never had any conflict with the city whatsoever, relatively mild-mannered in terms of my politics and my political efforts in the past.
My wife and I live here in Santa Monica, we feed the homeless. We do what most other families do on a nice low level of political involvement for people of our age, very typical, so to be drawn into something like this, I was brought into this thing kicking and screaming, but after a certain point when they turned on me, when they hired Skip Miller and this turn from, "Hey, let's go look and try and find your film," to "Hey, you vile creature here." They referred to me in court documents as "lurking in the kitchen with Sirhan".
Len Osanic With Sirhan.
Anita Langley Lurking.
Scott Enyart Lurking in the kitchen with Sirhan, where did this come from?
Len Osanic I have one other question that I forgot I wanted to bring up. Had you heard, or have anything to offer about the supposed woman in the polka dot dress?
Scott Enyart The woman in the polka dot dress is interesting. I have a photograph here, in fact, which the LAPD kept undercover, which shows Kennedy at the podium speaking and Sirhan standing in the crowd, and the woman in the polka dot dress is standing right in front of him and he's got his hand on her shoulder.
Len Osanic You're kidding.
Scott Enyart No. There are so many photographs like this. There definitely was a woman in a polka dot dress or close to that description, probably a number of them. The Sandy Serrano tape, which you probably heard, where they -
Len Osanic Browbeat.
Scott Enyart Browbeat, just this hideous, horrible way, and that was one of the things, when that tape was played for me, that sort of turned the tide for me on the LAPD in the sense that they weren't all nice and dealing above board with this. Sandy Serrano was threatened, she won't speak. She was accused of stealing funds from I think Gloria Molina's campaign or something like that, some ridiculous trumped up charge, and the LAPD came to her and basically told her, "You can either go to jail or not go to jail, but you can't speak about the Robert F. Kennedy case for the rest of your life."
She cut that deal. That's not legal. That's not the way you do things, so she's been, in effect, silenced. She's been threatened and silenced in this. You won't hear from her again, and this woman in the polka dot dress, supposedly running from the scene of the crime, "We shot him! We shot him!" That's just another thing that makes conspiracy people sound crazy, and there's enough evidence there for them to go in and actually come to a conclusion on this and they won't do it.
Len Osanic Well, because it could be a conclusion that she's the one who brought Sirhan.
Scott Enyart That's what I'm saying, but that will never be explored because they've made it out to be, the one key witness, Serrano, is this lunatic who was stealing, this, that, and the other thing. We silenced her. Just like so many others, they're just going to wait these people out until they die, and then they can bury this whole thing.
Len Osanic I would, we're probably going to wrap up in about four minutes here, but I would say to you that when you first heard the Serrano tape, myself, the reaction was, I can't think of a better word than unbelievable.
Scott Enyart Yeah, absolutely shocked. This visceral, "You're doing this to somebody? This is absolutely horrible." I was treated with kid gloves. "Gee, thank you for coming in, your father's here, we're going to take good care of your film and your pictures and stuff, are you okay? Can we get you a Coke? Can we get you a cup of water?" And then to realize that women like this, brought in like that and browbeaten and treated like that, it's a cancer, you're a Catholic and Kennedy was a Catholic, using all these horrific things to weasel out of this -
Len Osanic Oh yes, think of this spirit looking down on you and think of the Kennedy family and this is what they want, how can you go against them?
Scott Enyart That's right, and this type of thing, just unheard of.
Len Osanic I would offer to you that when you're thinking of the funds of LA County then, think about that, because if they were spending over a million dollars to bring in this hotshot lawyer when they already have a staff that's fully qualified of over 200 as I think you mentioned, they have an agenda here.
Scott Enyart You bet.
Len Osanic That money may not even be coming out of LA County. It may be coming higher up the chain.
Scott Enyart Right, and that's one of the things that we want to expose. We want the records brought out. Let's see the billing records for this trial.
Len Osanic Oh yeah, that would be perfect.
Scott Enyart Let's lay this out and let the City Council justify that.
Len Osanic I tell you one thing, are you familiar with April Oliver?
Scott Enyart No.
Len Osanic She did the Operation Tailwind on CNN, which exposed nerve gas in Vietnam.
Scott Enyart Oh, okay.
Len Osanic She recently had spoken to us and she went back, she was fired, as you may recall now, and she sued them for wrongful dismissal, saying that she had covered the story for nine months. They had boxes and boxes of statements, videotaped interviews and they went back against her and others who said that they misquoted them, and she won a settlement, and of course now she's not allowed to say a word about it.
The last we've heard is that she has a new car and a new home and her family is doing well, but she just has refused to comment, and that's something that, I'm glad I got to speak to you ahead of time, because I'd hate to hear that a year from now you did get a settlement that at least was worth your 20 years abuse, and of course the abuse, having to go through the abuse from Skip and others in that department, which should have said, "Listen, we've lost it," or, "It's been destroyed accidentally by well-meaning people," or, "Listen, shut up. Take the buy out. We know we did wrong."
At this point in time, for what they put you through, I think you do deserve either something or maybe ... if you write a book or do something, or make a movie.
Scott Enyart Even in settlement, we've always come forward and said, "You just pay what our costs are. No damages, no nothing. You just pay what my court costs are, pay my attorneys and I'll walk away from this," and they don't even have the dignity to do that.
Len Osanic I would withhold that offer now.
Scott Enyart Yeah, all bets are off right now.
Anita Langley It seems you've had enough damage lobbied against you that you have a right to at least see this through one way or another.
Scott Enyart Yeah, as long as they can't silence me in terms of my being able to speak out and lecture on this and bring this out to other people and now take the records that I have of this trial and their own words, damning themselves, and bring them out to the public, that'll satisfy me quite well.
Anita Langley As you said, this trial wasn't meant to actually expose what happened with the assassination, it was really about your film.
Scott Enyart Absolutely, we engineered it specifically as a property loss case, and that is why we were successful through the courts.
Anita Langley I was just going to say, that is actually, maybe you didn't intend for it to go that way, but from the exposure perspective for the case in general, there's a lot of people who are going to owe you thanks in the future just for actually getting the history on record, some of these facts on record and publicized, because as you said, people like the coroner weren't even able to testify until they had another venue which wasn't directly involving the assassination.
Scott Enyart Right, yeah. That's what we're hoping for.
Len Osanic At worst case, I know, not talking about myself for instance, but I produced a CD-ROM for Colonel Prouty which had documentation, nine hours of audio, video, etc., and that may be something that may be in your future that you decide, listen, I can make a CD-ROM now, with the size that you can put on a disc.
Scott Enyart That's right.
Len Osanic In which you can detail what happened to you, and I don't think that Skip could do anything against that, because he's already been found guilty of jury tampering and wrongful -
Scott Enyart That's right, all we do is go by the records and lay it out there and that's what I'm hoping to do is to fill this room full of boxes of court documents and audiotapes and videotapes and everything and bring it down into some manageable form and putting it out there so people can just, for themselves.
Len Osanic I think there's a lot of interest.
Scott Enyart Yeah.
Len Osanic What I'll do is in the next day or two I'll get your address and I'll mail you my CD-ROM.
Scott Enyart Terrific, I would love that.
Len Osanic In the meantime, we just wish you luck in your effort.
Scott Enyart Oh, great.
Len Osanic I don't know what we can do, but we will have the show archived and I'm sure a lot of people are going to be interested. This was a really fast-paced and eye-opening interview.
Scott Enyart Great.
Len Osanic And I think we just skimmed the surface of it, because just judging by your comments there's so many instances of wrongful, complete malicious handling of records in almost every avenue.
Scott Enyart Yeah, it's hard to keep focused and go in one direction on this, because you get pulled off to the side so many times, and that's what I have to keep clear is what am I really after here and keep on a true course, so it's always a pleasure to be able to do things like this, because we're not bound by the restrictions of the courtroom, and we have enough time to actually lay out the story and everything, and people get a chance to think about it and come back to it.
Len Osanic Yeah, maybe we'll do a further interview down the road and see what outcome you have.
Scott Enyart That would be great.
Anita Langley It's been a real pleasure having you here.
Scott Enyart Good to meet you, Anita.
Anita Langley You too.
Len Osanic Okay, well thanks again for being on, and we'll keep in touch. Hope things continue to go well for you, as your first trial ended up. I can't believe the city had the nerve to even appeal it.
Scott Enyart Yeah, that's the way it goes.
Len Osanic Yeah. All right then, we'll talk to you again.
Scott Enyart Thank you Len, thank you Anita.
Len Osanic Thank you.
Scott Enyart Bye bye.
Anita Langley Bye.
Len Osanic Well, that was unbelievable.
Anita Langley Very enlightening.
Len Osanic I think we're an hour and a half, we only wanted to take one hour, but we could have talked for three hours.
Anita Langley It would be great to have him back though, once he's gone a little bit farther, see how everything's followed up.
Len Osanic I think we can look into it and have more questions, because I'm sure he had things at the tip of his tongue that he could have answered even as I forgot, and he must have gone through all that testimony firsthand, so that's something to look forward to for a return visit.
Anita Langley It is indeed.
Len Osanic Okay, episode number -
Anita Langley Number 12.
Len Osanic In the books.
Anita Langley In the books.
Len Osanic Okay, appreciate everybody who listened in, and if you have any comments and suggestions for guests, we'd be only too happy to entertain them. All right, Anita.
Anita Langley Good night, Len. Good night everybody.
Len Osanic Bye now. Yeah. Good night.
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